Exploring Food Safety with Madeline Clevin: A Cancer Survivor's Journey and the Implication of Antibiotics

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What happens when you mix a new mom, a cancer survivor, and a safe food advocate? You get a potpourri of invaluable insights, and that's exactly what we bring you today as we host Madeline Klevin, MPH, Safe and Healthy Food Program Coordinator with FACT. Madeline shares her journey with cancer and how it shaped her view of food safety. Imagine a world where you are conscious of every morsel you eat, every pill you pop - That's Madeline's world, and she invites us into it, talking about the need for moderation in antibiotic usage and the implications of misuse, particularly on the vulnerable among us.

In the second part of our chat, we navigate the frightening terrain of antibiotic overuse and its consequences. Madeline draws from her experience and challenges us to shift our focus towards local and sustainable food systems. Is the FDA doing enough? Are organizations such as the Food Animal Concerns Trust making headway in curbing antibiotic resistance? We wrestle with these questions and more. We also explore the actions we, as individuals, can take in supporting a more sustainable food system. And guess what? There's a special treat waiting in the show notes! Listen in and equip yourself with the knowledge to stay healthy and promote sustainability. The journey to safe food consumption starts here!

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Transcript

Bettina M Brown: 0:05

Hello and welcome to In the Rising a health and wellness podcast for those going through and those supporting those going through cancer. My name is Bettina Brown and I'm board certified in physical therapy, wound care and lymphedema. And you know, for me cancer is very personal. It's affected my friends, my immediate and my not so immediate family, and therefore I created this podcast and fit after breast cancercom to address the multiple dimensions of our lives during and after recovery. Hello, hello and welcome to today's podcast.

Bettina M Brown: 0:46

I'm really happy to have you here and I have a question for you how often do you contemplate or consider what you're eating? Or do you feel that you're contemplating and considering what you're eating way too often? You're tired of talking about it, you're tired of hearing about it. But I will tell you that I had that question what am I eating? When I discovered something?

Bettina M Brown: 1:13

So, as a young mom, I was busy and I was multitasking, and sometimes that was multi-success, more often it was multi-failure. But I was busy, busy and I decided to just put in a frozen pizza in the oven, give it to us, you know all as a family, and my son decided to take off with friends because they're only here so often, and I just kind of put everything up and I did not find his piece of pizza until about two and a half three weeks later under his bed. That's why else, I mean, why would it not be under his bed? And what I was realizing in that moment is that the pizza looked like I had just taken it out of the oven. There was no mold, there was no problem, and if I would not have known the last time I made frozen pizza, I would have thought it was from early that day or the night before.

Bettina M Brown: 2:09

It really made me question what am I eating? And my conversation with Madeline Clevin was just about that. What am I eating, what considerations am I taking and how can I make it a little easier on all of us? If you stay to the end, I have a little gift for you and I'm excited to have you hear our conversation. Madeline, welcome to In the Rising podcast and thank you for your time today.

Madeline Clevin: 2:43

Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Bettina M Brown: 2:49

So I read about you and I'm putting it out there. I love your history, I love what you're doing. But before we're going into safety food safety, that you also talked about that you're a new mom and congratulations to that. That's a big deal.

Bettina M Brown: 3:08

Thank you, thank you. And it also says you're a cancer survivor and as a mom and cancer survivor, the topic about food, what's going into our body is at a very heightened level. What brought you to really feel as passionate and to present as much information about food, about antimicrobial resistance? How did you get to this point?

Madeline Clevin: 3:36

Yeah, that is such a great question and yeah, I think, because of my history and everything, that's one reason I've been very excited to talk to you today. And yeah, it's. You know, I think it really started so when I was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago now, I just became so acutely aware of. You know, not only the importance of you know what was going into my body in terms of medicine, like something like antibiotics, which you know, as you probably are aware, are so precious to those who are being treated or going through cancer, or you know associated surgeries, chemotherapy. You know, and but not only that, but then you know it's so critically tied to this, Like you said, what is going into your body in terms of nutrition and like the food you're eating. And you know, I don't think it was until I found, you know, food, animal concerns, trust, that I kind of put those two together as much, Because, of course, I had known about the food safety aspects.

Madeline Clevin: 4:55

You know, while you're going through cancer and you're immunocompromised, you have to be really careful. You know everything has to be cooked super well. You need to make sure you're not eating anything that could have, you know, bacteria in it or have them, forbid antibiotic resistant bacteria. And, you know, when I got to, and one of the reasons I was interested, in fact, was because they really, you know, tie these two together, like the importance of having healthy foods and, you know, limiting the excessive overuse of antibiotics in animal agriculture and ensuring that, you know, then, these resistant superbugs, or antibiotic resistant bugs that are forming, aren't getting into food and aren't getting into those populations who are most vulnerable, and you know who are more susceptible to these infections and who need functioning antibiotics the most. So, probably a roundabout way of saying it, but I, you know, I really became, yeah, interested a while ago in antibiotic resistance, but kind of really, yeah, honed my love for it when I got to fact, which was cool.

Bettina M Brown: 6:20

And I appreciate your comment on that, and I'm going to highlight what you said. You also talked about antibiotics being precious, because a lot of people may go oh my gosh, they don't want antibiotics, they're resistant. You know, like it's all bad. It isn't. You know, if it weren't for antibiotics, we would suffer. My son needed them in order to live those first few days. So they have their pulse and they are very valuable, but they don't have their place everywhere. Right, there's this moderation thing that is so important because we want to save and I'm going to quote you the vulnerable population and that is really important to focus on. And your history is also personal, because you worked in a laboratory setting looking at infectious organisms, so you have an in-depth way of looking at it from a scientific background as well. What are you feeling in general about how we're using antibiotics? Is it just so that we can keep prices down, food cheaper or food lasts longer? What do you feel is a major contributing factor?

Madeline Clevin: 7:27

Yeah, and that's such a great question because I think you know a lot of times I don't even think I was 100% aware of.

Madeline Clevin: 7:37

You know where primarily are antibiotics or even being used and unfortunately our antibiotics are being excessively overused in industrial farming. You know two-thirds of the antibiotics that are shared between people and animals are going to animals and often not to treat clinical disease present in animals but instead to compensate for. You know poor, crowded, unhealthy conditions where animals are getting sick and you know they're being weaned too early from their moms. You know they're not being fed proper diets so they're given antibiotics to prevent liver abscesses and you know it's unfortunately a lot of them are being used, you know, mostly preventatively for these conditions which really you know could be improved, and that's it's kind of unfortunate because we do see, of course, overuse and misuse in human medicine as well, absolutely. But again, like I said, when you know two-thirds of them are being used in animals, you know that's a that's the majority of where they're going and we'd like to see a lot more changes in that sector.

Bettina M Brown: 9:09

Absolutely, and I appreciate you saying that they're used for prevention right, and none of us are on antibiotics preventatively, unless there's very, very, very, very few cases where that ever exists for people. But what we are creating is a bigger problem and, having worked in the medical field, there are a few resistant bugs out there that, even as healthcare professionals, they're like we. Just you know, you have to wear this, this and this because if you get this, there's nothing we can do for you. Like you have to just hope your immune system is good and then your immune system may not be good because of all the different foods that you've been consuming, processed and not necessarily in the best place. What do you feel just hands out? Someone's listening, like, okay, well, what's one thing I can do? Because you know, do you eat eggs, do you don't I eggs? Right, or you don't want to go the back and forth. You have one thing that you feel could help just a person listening.

Madeline Clevin: 10:05

Definitely so.

Madeline Clevin: 10:06

I think you know it's important to bring that up because as a consumer, you really have a lot of power.

Madeline Clevin: 10:14

You know, in one simple way to make a difference is to buy meat from local producers who raise animals humanely, or look for products that are raised without antibiotics or without the routine use of antibiotics and, like you, are bringing up just processed foods and quality of food in general.

Madeline Clevin: 10:36

And you know, not only is buying locally important and buying this meat that is raised without the successive use of antibiotics not only beneficial for tackling the antibiotic resistance crisis, but for improving your health.

Madeline Clevin: 10:55

I mean, as you know, cancer patients, you know, and a lot of people have increased nutritional needs, right, and animals raised to mainly on pasture are much healthier than animals raised in confinement and consistently produce nutritionally superior meat, milk and eggs, better fat quality, increased levels of essential vitamins and nutrients. So I think that's definitely something you can do and you know, and if you don't buy meat, if you don't eat meat, then I would say also, you know I'll put in a little plug for what we do at FACT. But we often are, you know, writing to the FDA. We're in constant contact with food and drug administration, other federal agencies and often have ways that you know you can write to them. You can write to your kind of local Congress congressional office or your senator and you know, tell them kind of push for or promote better policies, and so that's something else. Yeah, I think those are kind of two critical things whether you are buying or not buying meat.

Bettina M Brown: 12:26

I like what you talked about because ultimately, it's about empowerment. Right we are, we are responsible and not all of us have the time to get our vegetables from our backyard or even with anything else but also recognizing that the good bugs right, we're almost over clean, that you know. We want to clean our vegetables, but if they're super we're not even getting the good bacteria because we need them to help us process.

Bettina M Brown: 12:54

So, having those local things, it's like when you travel and you don't feel good because you have different bacteria than your normal local bacteria in your system that is important to help you feel better, and it is empowerment, and I think sometimes we forget how important we are because we get constant images and marketing. You need this, this and this and this, but what we need we decide, and that is okay for us to figure that out, and I love the empowerment. Not everyone will sit down and write a congressman but where and how you purchase like people look into that because they want your money and they want to wear the money's not coming from. And if we only spend our money on, you know, putting it into local things, putting it into products or meats that do not have hormones, well then that's how the shift will happen. It can happen without even one letter. It is how we spend our precious dollars.

Bettina M Brown: 13:50

But you also mentioned was FDA. It's notoriously slow, but it's also it's very well recognized. It's also very well lobbied and I'd like you to share a little bit from your own experience of why it's so slow tacked.

Madeline Clevin: 14:10

That is a great question, I think, one that I'm, you know, we've been trying to figure out. We've been working on these issues for a long time and, you know, sometimes it can be hard to understand. And, yeah, like I said, I mean there is this significant misuse and overuse of antibiotics in animals and you know the Food and Drug Administration has the ability and we really think absolutely has the responsibility to curb and restrict this overuse and you know they are responsible for protecting the public health and ensuring that our drugs are safe, you know, including antibiotics, so that we can use them for, you know, the populations that need them the most. And I would say I'm not 100% sure why things seem to be so sluggish sometimes. But you know, I will say, on a more positive note, I think we have seen that a little bit of progress. You know we have seen progress and, and I think that's why organizations like Food, animal Concerns, trust and a lot of colleagues we work with are still, you know, fighting the good fight.

Madeline Clevin: 15:33

I think we still believe that. You know we can see differences in policies implemented and you know, and if you look at even what the European Union has done, you know they've banned now preventive uses in animal agriculture and you know, set targets for reducing antibiotic use, and you know, so I think it's definitely possible for you know the US as an industrial farming country to you know, implement these things and do them. And I think, yeah, not totally sure what, always the whole dumbest, but you know, I think we're, we're trying to keep pushing them. I mean, we constantly, and you know we meet quarterly with the Food and Drug Administration and specifically the Center for Veterinary Medicine, and that is one of the things we, I will say, consistently bring up is okay timelines, timelines like let's get things moving.

Bettina M Brown: 16:39

So you know, I'd like to think that us keeping pushing is still having an effect and I think that's important because to bring up, sometimes it's not our job or our lifetime that we will get something to cross the finish line, but we can very much get that brought up and maybe that's the next person behind us in that occupation or the next generation to keep moving forward.

Bettina M Brown: 17:07

It does not mean that it's not helpful and I think that is also very much front of mind and I really like that. You talked about that. We have antibiotics for the population that needs them and you know I don't always think about what population needs them, but you you will think about it when you are or someone you love is in the population that needs them, and so you know, nothing gets more personal than personal stories, but I think that's a really profound way of saying that. Share with others, please, about fact and and how they can, you know, gain one or two things that can gain a good resource that has real, real facts truly, and not just fiction, and a lot of opinions.

Madeline Clevin: 17:52

Yeah, and you know I may or may not have mentioned this in the beginning, but you know, fact is we're a national nonprofit.

Madeline Clevin: 18:03

Really, we do two main things that are split up into two programs. One is our humane farming program, where we provide critical resources to help farmers adopt humane farming practices and promote sustainable food systems through webinars, educational tools, grants, mentoring. And then we also through our Safe and Healthy Food Program, which I'm a part of, that's where we do this kind of urging of governmental as well as corporate action to reduce the threat of antibiotic resistance, and you know the threat that's driven largely by this overuse of antibiotics. And so, whether or not you are a consumer or you know you might be a farmer, or you might be yet trying to produce your own food, or maybe you're just interested in learning more, you know fact is a great resource to find ways in which you can support a more sustainable, good food system, as well as, like I said, talk to federal agencies and kind of push policies that will help hopefully lessen the antibiotic resistance crisis. And our website is foodanimalconcernstrustorg.

Bettina M Brown: 19:23

I enjoyed this conversation and I hope that you did as well. I learned so much about fact and it is really important to know that everything has its place, including antibiotics, including having an extra shake. But knowing when and where and how that affects your health and the health of your family is so important, and I wanted to offer you all a special gift today. So in the show notes below is a link, and I would like to gift you some recipes. I have a real love of Mediterranean food, a real love of the Mediterranean diet, and I still like my taste buds. I still have the flavors that I love with that, and so that is below, and I encourage you to take charge of your health today and as well as learn more about what Madeleine has to offer. Many blessings to you and until next time, let's keep building one another up.